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Aztech

Posted 1/3/2016 20:47 (#5008939 - in reply to #5007851)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

MN

What if you over applied fertilizer by not knowing your soul levels and didn't see any yield gain. Not much roi there.... GrainTrader

Posted 1/3/2016 20:51 (#5008958 - in reply to #5008921)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

20 Miles West of Indianapolis Indiana

20 Miles West of Indianapolis Indiana

Fair enough GarageGuy

Posted 1/3/2016 20:55 (#5008983 - in reply to #5008629)
Subject: RE: the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!

South Central Wisconsin

Where did " the sky is falling" come into play in this thread ? There are always guys that will trip over a dollar to pick up a dime. They do it whether corn is $ 7.00 or $ 1.50. In my mind, the point is being careful and thoughtful about when and what you're cutting. lawfarms

Posted 1/3/2016 20:58 (#5008993 - in reply to #5008667)
Subject: RE: the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!

King City, Mo

King City, Mo

That example is shooting for county average yields.....:)
Northern corn

Posted 1/3/2016 21:03 (#5009015 - in reply to #5008698)
Subject: RE: Who wants to work for nothing???

Gladwin Mi

Never said he did. Op stands on his own. Don't accuse brad wrongfully.

Is it ok to post seed signs? Not when you sell that brand? il weedman

Posted 1/3/2016 21:15 (#5009058 - in reply to #5009015)
Subject: RE: Who wants to work for nothing???

St. Charles, MO & Piper City, IL

Dont accuse wrongfully? Like Brad did by posting a picture off of the op webpage? But it's ok to post pic after pic of his seed brand signs? I advertise in the classified adds where we are allowed. Sorry but he brought this up to try and discredit the op like he has some sort of bias in his post. Sorry. I don't agree. AGB

Posted 1/3/2016 21:23 (#5009081 - in reply to #5007851)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Mid-Michigan

Trying to cheat the system hasn't worked for me nor has trying to figure the futures. I'm sticking with my regular fertility program and rotation. I might be wrong but I was wrong trying the other two also. I'm thankful I'm not spending any profit on stupid rent where I'm guaranteed to lose. Cat33

Posted 1/3/2016 21:47 (#5009161 - in reply to #5009081)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

NE SD

AGB - 1/3/2016 21:23

Trying to cheat the system hasn't worked for me nor has trying to figure the futures. I'm sticking with my regular fertility program and rotation. I might be wrong but I was wrong trying the other two also. I'm thankful I'm not spending any profit on stupid rent where I'm guaranteed to lose.

Same here. No change except dropped a few bags of DK for Croplan to save 40 bucks a bag and to try something new. Fert is done, seed is ordered, rotation is set, and no shiny new toys. Last payments on two things were last year and no plans on any new ones until things shape up. coup

Posted 1/3/2016 21:51 (#5009175 - in reply to #5008597)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

USA

Gaintrader you got enough acres combined with your Dad. $60,000 out to get you setup for dry with a used blender and spreader. $39,000 after tax cost.

$ 10 acre savings on 500 acres = $5,000= 12.8% ROI

$10 on 1000 acres = $10,000 = $ 25.6%

Best get to drawing up the plans. Margins are only going to get wider as time goes on .

Edited by coup 1/3/2016 21:53

halfwit

Posted 1/3/2016 22:25 (#5009275 - in reply to #5009175)
Subject: He's going to have to save.........

seia/wcill

$150-200/ton year in and year out to save $10/acre on dry fert. Plus if you're going to use after tax in so many of your examples, the $10/acre savings would really be a $6.50/acre "after tax" savings, right? Plus, in one of your other posts today, you suggest a total fert cost of like $80/acre, so you're not using enough fert to save youself $6.50/acre or $10/acre. Lets be caeful before we suggest everyone on this site starts building bulk fert storage and handling. Just a random thought. Jon B

Posted 1/4/2016 05:19 (#5009464 - in reply to #5008699)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Because locally if I produce 10 more bushels, thats $30-35 more in my pocket, which means I can rent more land.

Let the guys 300-500 miles away worry about producing less because the market wants them to.

AGB

Posted 1/4/2016 05:26 (#5009469 - in reply to #5009161)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Mid-Michigan

AGB - 1/3/2016 21:23

Trying to cheat the system hasn't worked for me nor has trying to figure the futures. I'm sticking with my regular fertility program and rotation. I might be wrong but I was wrong trying the other two also. I'm thankful I'm not spending any profit on stupid rent where I'm guaranteed to lose.

Same here. No change except dropped a few bags of DK for Croplan to save 40 bucks a bag and to try something new. Fert is done, seed is ordered, rotation is set, and no shiny new toys. Last payments on two things were last year and no plans on any new ones until things shape up.

Cat33 - 1/3/2016 21:47Same here. No change except dropped a few bags of DK for Croplan to save 40 bucks a bag and to try something new. Fert is done, seed is ordered, rotation is set, and no shiny new toys. Last payments on two things were last year and no plans on any new ones until things shape up.

Paying off the last financed piece I have this week. Feels good. dixonman

Posted 1/4/2016 06:02 (#5009502 - in reply to #5009175)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Would it be cheaper to buy a twin bin spreader rather than a mixer and all the upkeep and headaches that go with that. Indianajones

Posted 1/4/2016 06:06 (#5009504 - in reply to #5008278)
Subject: RE: Who wants to work for nothing???

. coup

Posted 1/4/2016 06:28 (#5009530 - in reply to #5009275)
Subject: RE: He's going to have to save.........

USA

As have explained before investing in something like fert storage is like investing money in a savings account, land , stocks, or any other type of investment. Is paid for with after tax $. Income or ROI from investments are pre tax $. To compare apples to apples as to how on farm fert storage stacks up to other types of investments. ROI needs to be figured the same way. coup

Posted 1/4/2016 06:43 (#5009551 - in reply to #5009502)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

USA

Haven't been around twin bin spreader as far as upkeep, but cost wise would probably be a cheaper way to go.

Less out of pocket cost way is do it like used to. Tractor with six ton Wilmar buggy, swing away auger to direct load fert from semi hopper and spread Dap one year Potash the next.

If person wanted to get into fert storage on the cheap buy couple cargo containers . Don't know what current cost is but year ago was around $2600 for a 40ft high cube delivered. Clay SEIA

Posted 1/4/2016 09:02 (#5009794 - in reply to #5008183)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Ty, I pretty much agree- no way could I trim 30% from expenses, there is no low hanging fruit and hasn't been either.  I've got a little different twist in the mix than you & Graintrader, though.  We have more acreage scale than you guys, to the point where I could justify an NH3 bottle, and probably getting set up to spread dry, and I'd love to have a tile plow.  Problem is, we're already stretched thin for manpower right now, to the point that timeliness of some operations is not where I'd like it to be.  So, I look at these things and think, how much capital investment and product savings does it take to justify the salary of an additional person to get it all done?  

Clay SEIA

Posted 1/4/2016 09:15 (#5009815 - in reply to #5008333)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Illinois Steve - 1/3/2016 18:11 I think machinery costs are the first place that most can cut. Lets face it everyone is pretty well healed on equipment after the last several years.

You're painting with a rather broad brush, even if it is an accurate one for many people.  My operation has been leaving yield, and revenue, on the table because we are under-equipped.  There's a point where running too thin is actually detrimental, especially with all the miserable planting seasons we seem to get hit with in this part of the world.  Clay SEIA

Posted 1/4/2016 09:22 (#5009829 - in reply to #5008798)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Deerfield - 1/3/2016 20:14 I don't understand why you would cut populations do the math very little money saved and giving up the yield potential makes no sense to me

I've been doing lots of population test plots, in MY fields.  I've been doing the math, and I have the data to back up my decision to plant lower populations than I had been at one time.  Do you have data from YOUR fields to justify the population you are planting?  bpreuss

Posted 1/4/2016 10:00 (#5009899 - in reply to #5009530)
Subject: RE: He's going to have to save.........

MN

makes sense to me jd43

Posted 1/4/2016 10:04 (#5009913 - in reply to #5007851)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Northeastern Pa.

For all of the above responses is why there is no one book on how to farm and make a profit. We all have different soil, yield capabilities, operation size, equipment, tillage practices, government vs. no government payments, insurance vs. none, spouse working off the farm, operators working off the farm, debt size- long and short term, different rent rates, storage or no storage and list goes on. I can only speak for myself but I push the pencil every year until the lead breaks. I talked to a lot of farmers when corn and beans were at their peak and told them be careful what goes up has always come down. I was labeled even on here as a pessimist. But they went big and bought all that iron and now for one of them the neighbors are filling their wood stove so they stay warm this winter. My fertilizer and chemical program is solid and will stay that way. I save at least 1/3 on fuel by no-tilling what I can. My biggest concern is picking the right hybrid/variety that will give me the best roi. When I do that everything else falls into place even in unfavorable weather conditions. Good luck to all and I hope we all have good year. bpreuss

Posted 1/4/2016 10:15 (#5009933 - in reply to #5008888)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

MN

I'm not doubting that your chemical program works well, I truly believe it does. But, with that many r-up apps, even with great control now, you are setting yourself up for resistance issues. Especially with waterhemp. Believe me, BTDT. Waterhemp came in here like a freight train. Even if your fields are clean as a whistle, your neighbors may not be and seed moves.
Not flaming, just a heads up! Greywolf

Posted 1/4/2016 10:26 (#5009950 - in reply to #5008011)
Subject: I'll add for clarity

Aberdeen MS

Aberdeen MS

the % reduction for banding is from the broadcast/build rate that is generally offered from a test lab.

It is NOT based on removal rate of your target yield. Deerfield

Posted 1/4/2016 10:53 (#5009999 - in reply to #5009829)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Nw ohio

In my area we are pushing corn populations higher I could lower them several thousand seeds per acre but that's not saving much of anything in the end do the math NEIndiana

Posted 1/4/2016 11:51 (#5010099 - in reply to #5008286)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Columbia City, Indiana

winner2011 - 1/3/2016 17:55

If I had my own Nh3 tank locally, I could save over $100 a ton in product. This is not the case every year.

Just curious, will that require extra insurance for on farm storage? What if some meth head gets himself killed trying to steal from your on farm tank? Clay SEIA

Posted 1/4/2016 11:53 (#5010105 - in reply to #5009999)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Like I said, I'm doing the math.  Even when we had 200+ yield environment in 2014, 34k had no advantage over a 30k population in my testing.  Now, I'm not saying that is necessarily true for somebody hundreds of miles away from here- but do you have your own results, or are you just taking the recs of the people selling you the seed?  

GrainTrader

Posted 1/4/2016 12:51 (#5010213 - in reply to #5009794)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

20 Miles West of Indianapolis Indiana

20 Miles West of Indianapolis Indiana

Manpower and time stop me from doing some things I'd really like as well Clay. I'm 100% sure they'd pay, but like u say, not enough at this point to justify the added time and expense with throwing my full time job in the mix righ now. Factory schedules can be very restricting at times... Especially when u don't want them to be... Deerfield

Posted 1/4/2016 13:11 (#5010254 - in reply to #5010105)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Nw ohio

My point is 4000 seeds per acre is roughly 8 bucks an acre depending on seed cost not very much expense not worth possibly giving up yield winner2011

Posted 1/4/2016 13:23 (#5010270 - in reply to #5010099)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Northwest Illinois

Most likely will need better insurance. I'm not interested in one at this point, just relaying some facts. Plus, my hired men would probably quit because they dislike even switching tanks let alone filling their own. l&a ag

Posted 1/4/2016 13:48 (#5010310 - in reply to #5008183)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Humeston, IA

NEIL,

I'm Tiler's daughter and I'll answer some of those questions for you. I can not give you a total amount saved and where exactly it all came from but this is what I know. Our row crop operation is about 2200 acres of our own & depending on the year +/- 200-400 acres of custom.

1) switched from name-brand hi$ traited seed purchased from the local FS (Dekalb/Syngenta/Agrigold) to 100% Wyffels conventional corn (higher volume discount than when purchasing an assortment from various companies saving close to $125ish/per bag) and 100% Pioneer conventional beans (cost savings approx. $15-25/unit)

2) priced and purchased chemicals from 5 different places vs. strictly the local FS (range in prices were close to $2 - $14/ pint on some products)

3) We finished our build program for our fertilizer and are doing maintenance (cost reduction about 30%)

Another big difference we have done is started with management zones and variable rate apply fert & seed. We run populations from 27,500 to 38,500 and have autoswath. Both of those we have seen drastic savings in seed cost as well as higher yields.

My husband is the main mechanic for the farm with help from my dad and brother. We do almost ALL of our own repairs from the day to day fixes to completely re-manning the engine in our Ro-Gator 854 and switching a blown Powerstroke motor out for a Cummins. We did have to hire out our pre-emerge chemical application this year and we flew the fungicide on due to our sprayer being broke down and needing timely applications.

We have a manure spreader that we use for dry lime & manure and a side dress bar and do almost all of our own application - exception being for dry fert when we use it. 2 semis and grain trailers and my husband and brother do all of our trucking. We do all of our own dirt work; fixing ditches, installing tile, terrace work, etc.

We were not running on fat previously. We are not BTO running the newest and best. The newest piece of equipment we run is our combine - 2010 JD9870. Our tractors are between 10-50 years old. We simply made some switches after a few years of trials that made more sense for our operations bottom line. Our words of advice - always price check your local coop. winner2011

Posted 1/4/2016 18:00 (#5010740 - in reply to #5010310)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Northwest Illinois

Great answer. Probably the most logical thread to the entire post. Clay SEIA

Posted 1/4/2016 19:47 (#5011059 - in reply to #5010254)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

8 bucks here, 8 bucks there, pretty soon you are talking about some real money.  Did you still not comprehend the part where I am verifying that this is NOT costing me yield potential?  Intend to put out more plots in the next growing season to keep verifying what I am doing, too.

NEILFarmer

Posted 1/4/2016 20:14 (#5011166 - in reply to #5011059)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Morris, IL

I combined one plot similar last fall, planted lot more but rained screwed that up, anyway I found the opposite, should have been planting higher in the 38k range which really surprised me. And that field only averaged 180-185, range of 100-250. I will keep running test. Deerfield

Posted 1/4/2016 20:20 (#5011186 - in reply to #5011166)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Nw ohio

Most people I know are pushing corn populations one guy I know is now up to 45000 seeds per acre I think these guys are giving up yield for a couple bucks worth of seed but not me NEILFarmer

Posted 1/4/2016 20:29 (#5011235 - in reply to #5010310)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Morris, IL

Thank you for responding, we have different ideas of what is fat and where to cut but that is fine. In this area buying chemicals from coop is fat and only ones left doing so are at mercy of coop for spraying.

I second your finishing remarks about always price checking local coop. We buy only fertilize from local coop and been that way for a while.

Edited by NEILFarmer 1/4/2016 21:08

il weedman

Posted 1/4/2016 20:32 (#5011246 - in reply to #5010099)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

St. Charles, MO & Piper City, IL

No extra insurance required. NEILFarmer

Posted 1/4/2016 20:34 (#5011258 - in reply to #5011186)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Morris, IL

Only way you going to know for sure is test it and weigh it. With yield monitor I'll put a plot for every hybrid and sometimes even each hybrid in each field. I might only test 1/2 in the combine but with calibrated yield monitor I can pull that data from SMS. NEILFarmer

Posted 1/4/2016 20:49 (#5011307 - in reply to #5009794)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Morris, IL

You were one I was thinking of along with hundreds others just like all over.

Kind of a catch 22 isn't it, I enjoy being able and take pride is doing almost every job on the farm myself. Want to get into tiling our ground but still very unsure how, where, and when.

One nice thing, grain storage and drying really is a positive on man power. Shop I would consider the same on smaller scale, both require the right kind of person to make them pay. TD15

Posted 1/4/2016 20:57 (#5011333 - in reply to #5011235)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

If I remember right your buying your chems from a bare bones outfit now aren't you ? Probably not much to be saved there anyway. NEILFarmer

Posted 1/4/2016 21:07 (#5011371 - in reply to #5011333)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Morris, IL

Yes and was even when corn was $7, that is exactly my point. I think your up near Rockford, guy we deal with is out of Rochelle and is great to work with if your looking. TD15

Posted 1/4/2016 21:37 (#5011480 - in reply to #5011371)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

I think we use the same guy, great service, good pricing always gets back to me . I don't think I could save much if I left him and most of all, the bill is always right they don't play the Coop games. NEILFarmer

Posted 1/4/2016 21:39 (#5011487 - in reply to #5011480)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Morris, IL

Maybe, Dale? Couldn't agree more, my grandfather started with him at UAP years and years ago and have kept following him. TD15

Posted 1/4/2016 22:26 (#5011616 - in reply to #5011487)
Subject: RE: Saving money on inputs...

Yah , Dale

surgeofprotection said:

Besides the rebranded pry bars, cobras and hammers, are there anything else worth getting from Craftsman/Sears?

Click to expand...

The adjustable wrenches are great and also sold by SK and Proto, groove lock pliers (channellocks) are great also and sold by SK, needle nose pliers and cutters are good as well and all those listed are made in USA by Western Forge. Some stores still have USA made pipe wrenches laying around and wood chisels I've purchased within last year. The Craftsman snap ring pliers are really good and sold by truck brands, especially the newer internal/external design. Their bolt out sets are Irwin, which are all truck brands oem. There are a few drill bit sets made in Germany which are good. I personally have no problem with using Craftsman USA screwdrivers (btw made by Western Forge same as SK) or scratch awls, but their new gray handled extreme grip screwdrivers get good reviews on here. The chisels and punch sets are made in USA by Western Forge and get mixed reviews. Their 6 point ratchet wrenches are made in USA and are decent because they are offset and reversible, but only 36t or something. Flat pry bars are USA and pretty good. The pry bars and hook and picks sets mentioned above are great as well and I own multiple of each.

Bottom line is any USA made item sold in Sears is also sold by a "professional" brand and are good enough for me. I own multiple of each item I just listed. I also recently purchased one of the 84t low profile ratchets and it's actually pretty good. Same exact internal design as Maxx 88. I switch between that and my dual 80s, it feels just as good. Also, a lot of Craftsmans specialty tools that are next to the pry bars and snap ring pliers are made in USA.

The adjustable wrenches are great and also sold by SK and Proto, groove lock pliers (channellocks) are great also and sold by SK, needle nose pliers and cutters are good as well and all those listed are made in USA by Western Forge. Some stores still have USA made pipe wrenches laying around and wood chisels I've purchased within last year. The Craftsman snap ring pliers are really good and sold by truck brands, especially the newer internal/external design. Their bolt out sets are Irwin, which are all truck brands oem. There are a few drill bit sets made in Germany which are good. I personally have no problem with using Craftsman USA screwdrivers (btw made by Western Forge same as SK) or scratch awls, but their new gray handled extreme grip screwdrivers get good reviews on here. The chisels and punch sets are made in USA by Western Forge and get mixed reviews. Their 6 point ratchet wrenches are made in USA and are decent because they are offset and reversible, but only 36t or something. Flat pry bars are USA and pretty good. The pry bars and hook and picks sets mentioned above are great as well and I own multiple of each.Bottom line is any USA made item sold in Sears is also sold by a "professional" brand and are good enough for me. I own multiple of each item I just listed. I also recently purchased one of the 84t low profile ratchets and it's actually pretty good. Same exact internal design as Maxx 88. I switch between that and my dual 80s, it feels just as good. Also, a lot of Craftsmans specialty tools that are next to the pry bars and snap ring pliers are made in USA.